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Old 02-18-11, 10:11 AM
IGF-1 Lr3 Log - BAC Water VS Acetic Acid
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So I am going to run 2 separate cycles of IGF-1 Lr3. 4 weeks on followed by a 4 week break and then back on 4 weeks.

The first cycle will be reconstituted with BAC water only. Second cycle will be reconstituted with Acetic Acid only.

Yes we all know what is repeated online, "IGF will only last a few days in BAC water". I have searched and searched online and that statement is made over and over but 1 thing seems to be missing.. proof. I can find no study or science to back up the claim that is repeated so often.

On the flip side of the coin I have also come across people that have been using IGF for years and have always reconstituted with BAC water only. They claim that the IGF does just fine in BAC water and it is just as potent on day 30 as it was on day 1 in terms of sides like hypo etc... They claim that the fragility of IGF has been hugely exaggerated online.

Anyway, I plan to get to the bottom of it. I am going to use BAC water only for the first month cycle. If what some people claim is true and the IGF dies within 48 hours or so in BAC water, I should stop feeling any sides or results after the second or 3rd day. If I continue to get sides and see results through the whole month then in my mind, myth busted about IGF dieing in BAC water after only a few days. To be fair though I will also give the AA a full month run and note any difference.

I plan to update this log just like I did with GHRP. So stay tuned. Should have it by next week.

Dosage will be 40mcg per day for 30 days. Shot will be taken Sub-Q directly after workout.

This is the product I will be using. 1mg Lyophilized Long R3 IGF-1

LOG STARTS ON PAGE 2. I marked each log update in red so its easier to just skip past all the other posts and go right to my updates. Each update starts with "Day 1, Day 2, etc.."

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Old 02-18-11, 11:19 AM
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A few things first I never went hypo of even came close to that feeling and this was stuff that worked like a champ. proof was in the mirror.
second why expermint with the IGF that way? it makes more sence to experment on yourself with doses or timming but not the way its mixed.
everyone agrees that its fine in AA
some say bac water is fine
some say bac water 24-48 hours
makes sence to go with AA if you ask me. But either way you decide I will be looking at the thread to see what happens.
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Old 02-18-11, 11:58 AM
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A few things first I never went hypo of even came close to that feeling and this was stuff that worked like a champ. proof was in the mirror.
second why expermint with the IGF that way? it makes more sence to experment on yourself with doses or timming but not the way its mixed.
everyone agrees that its fine in AA
some say bac water is fine
some say bac water 24-48 hours
makes sence to go with AA if you ask me. But either way you decide I will be looking at the thread to see what happens.
because i dont follow what others blindly say without evidence. i must do things for myself to prove things to myself.

i respect what you and scott say but you know me bro, i must do things my way. i think this experiment will be interesting none the less. havent seen anyone else online really be willing to potentially waste an expensive bottle of igf lr3. call me a dipshit or call me a trail blazer.. whatever you do.. just call me!
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Old 02-18-11, 12:08 PM
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And that is exactly my point in doing this. ^

One person says its great with bac, the next guy will say bac kills it.

I will get to the god damn bottom of this shit!
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Old 02-18-11, 04:24 PM
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because i dont follow what others blindly say without evidence. i must do things for myself to prove things to myself.

i respect what you and scott say but you know me bro, i must do things my way. i think this experiment will be interesting none the less. havent seen anyone else online really be willing to potentially waste an expensive bottle of igf lr3. call me a dipshit or call me a trail blazer.. whatever you do.. just call me!
Ya I have only "read" that the Bac will kill it never had the ballz to try cuz It is just as easy with AA so who realy cares. But if its for your own personal knowledge then hell ya go for it.
I did EQ only cuz people said it wouldnt work,lol they were right it was weak
hopefull you get something outta the igf
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Old 02-18-11, 05:22 PM
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Ya I have only "read" that the Bac will kill it never had the ballz to try cuz It is just as easy with AA so who realy cares. But if its for your own personal knowledge then hell ya go for it.
I did EQ only cuz people said it wouldnt work,lol they were right it was weak
hopefull you get something outta the igf
im only interested in facts bro, when people make claims without any science to back it up i generally don't accept it.
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Old 02-18-11, 07:37 PM
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A few things first I never went hypo of even came close to that feeling and this was stuff that worked like a champ. proof was in the mirror.
second why expermint with the IGF that way? it makes more sence to experment on yourself with doses or timming but not the way its mixed.
everyone agrees that its fine in AA
some say bac water is fine
some say bac water 24-48 hours
makes sence to go with AA if you ask me. But either way you decide I will be looking at the thread to see what happens.
gro pep one of the original makers of igf13 -- says acetic acid -- 48 hours in bac water .. will go with the makers recommendations
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Old 02-18-11, 08:18 PM
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gro pep one of the original makers of igf13 -- says acetic acid -- 48 hours in bac water .. will go with the makers recommendations
And other manufacturers ship only with bac water or sodium chloride so that doesn't really prove anything.

Find one piece of evidence, study, science etc.. that shows igf lr3 is only active for 48 hours in bac water and I will buy the argument.

Dave palumbo says bac is no problem at all with igf lr3.

Brings me back to my point of why I made this thread, so many strong oppinions but no real proof or comparison that i can find.

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Old 02-19-11, 01:15 AM
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I like that you are taking one for the team here Bouncer...very interested to see how your experiment turns out.
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Old 02-19-11, 01:49 AM
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I like that you are taking one for the team here Bouncer...very interested to see how your experiment turns out.
I agree its great he is willing to try it but what difference does it make if you can use Bac or not? its not like the AA is hard to get or it hurts you so why risk loosing the IGF?
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Old 02-19-11, 07:03 AM
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http://www.creative-biolabs.com/cata...0(CRP0805).pdf

look at reconstitution
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Old 02-19-11, 07:13 AM
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Human Long Arg3 Insulin-like Growth Factor-I (Long-R3-IGF-I) is an 83 amino acid analog to human IGF-I. It has the complete human IGF-I sequence with the substitution of Arg for Glu at position 3 (hence R3), and a 13 amino acid extension at the N-terminus.
IGF-1 Long R3 is a synthetic analog of the naturally existing insulin growth factor (IGF) which is a 93 amino acid residue. Modifications of the natural form occurred with the substitution of the Arg with Glu at the position 3, giving a code R3, and also an extension of a 13 amino acid at the B-terminus. Just like the IGF-1, R3 has been shown to induce the development and growth of cells.
Long R3 IGF-1 is significantly more potent than IGF-1. The enhanced potency is due to the decreased binding of Long R3 IGF-1 to all known IGF binding proteins. These binding proteins normally inhibit the biological actions of IGF's. When IGF is active it behaves differently in different types of tissues. In muscle cells proteins and associated cell components are stimulated. Protein synthesis is increased along with amino acid absorption. As a source of energy, IGF mobilizes fat for use as energy in adipose tissue.
The most effective length for a cycle of IGF is 50 days on and 20-40 days off. The most controversy surrounding Long R3 IGF-1 is the effective dosage. The most used dosages range between 20mcg/day to 120+mcg/day. The dosage issue mainly revolves around how much money you have to spend, plenty of people use the minimum dosage of 20mcg/day and are happy with the results. IGF is most effective when administered subcutaneous and injected once or twice daily at your current dosage. The best time for injections is either in the morning and/or immediately after weight training.
* Shuttles nutrients directly into cells and muscles for maximum results.
* Builds muscle mass, promotes fat loss.
* Increased protein synthesis.v * IGF mobilizes fat for use as energy in adipose tissue.
* Causes hyperplasia, the increase of more muscle cells.
* At a genetic level it has the potential to alter an individuals capacity to build superior muscle density and size.
* Possesses the ability to rehabilitate damaged cartilage.

Storage: Although it is stable at room temperature for up to 3 weeks, lyophilized Long-R3-IGF-I powder should be stored below -20°C. Upon reconstitution, Long-R3-IGF-I solution should be stored at °C for less than 7 days and below -20°C for longer time. Repeat Freeze-thaw cycles should be avoided for Long-R3-IGF-I solution.
Reconstitution:
It is recommended to reconstitute the lyophilized Long-R3-IGF-I powder in acetic acid or sodium chloride. This reconstituted Long R3-IGF-I solution can be further diluted to other aqueous solutions.
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Old 02-19-11, 07:16 AM
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Insulin-like Growth Factor LR3
Insulin-like Growth Factor LR3 (IGF-1)

IGF-1 (Long R3 IGF-1) Dose:
Light: 20 mcg
Common: 40 mcg
Large: 80 mcg

IGF-1 is injected post work out (PWO) or in the AM on non workout days for 4-6 week intervals. Do not exceed 100mcg.

Insulin-like Growth Factor (Long-R3 IGF-1), an 83 amino acid analog of IGF-1 is a highly anabolic hormone released primarily in the liver with the stimulus of growth hormone (HGH).
(http://peptide-guide.com/images/igf-1aa_w5ci.jpg)

IGF-1 is the most potent growth factor found in the body and causes muscle cell hyperplasisa.

Freeze dried (lyophilized) IGF-1 (in powder state) should be stored in the freezer (-18 degrees celsius).
Example Long r3 IGF-1 kit contains:

* 1000mcg of lyophilized (freeze dried) Long R3 IGF-1
* 2 mls of 0.6% Acetic Acid (AA)
* 30ml Sodium Chloride (NaCL) as buffer

Dilute the IGF-1 peptide with 2mls of Acetic Acid (.6%). Assuming (*DO NOT ASSUME*) Acetic Acid (AA) will yield the correct pH balance of your research peptide.
Note: This creates a concentration of 500mcg/ml. So each 1/10 of a ML is 50mcg’s.

Draw the desired amount of IGF in to a syringe. Desired amount should be the approx dosage wanted.
Example- 2mls AA used to reconstitute IGF-1 1mg vial means 5 units on a U100 insulin syringe would equal 25mcg IGF-1 LR3
Pre-load your syringes at 5iu (25mcg IGF-1). Divide your IGF-1 into 40 syringes for storage in the freezer.
Thaw prior to administration. Draw from your NaCL after thawed to buffer (.5ml is enough).

Unknown whether injecting IGF-1 to increase muscle growth is efficacious. Many believe in the value of this powerful growth factor. Question currently is whether IGF-1 is effective when not manufactured by the tissues themselves.

It is possible to go into hypoglycemia fro IGF-1 supplementation. Effect is dose dependant.
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Old 02-19-11, 07:18 AM
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http://www.roche-applied-science.com...t/1048058a.pdf
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Old 02-19-11, 07:33 AM
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IGF1 LR3




Insulin-like Growth Factor LR3 (IGF-1)
IGF-1 (Long R3 IGF-1) Dose:
Light: 20 mcg
Common: 40 mcg
Large: 80 mcg

IGF-1 is injected post work out (PWO) or in the AM on non workout days for 4-6 week intervals.

Insulin-like Growth Factor (Long-R3-IGF-1), an 83 amino acid analog of IGF-1 is a highly anabolic hormone released primarily in the liver with the stimulus of growth hormone (HGH).

IGF-1 LR3 Molecule

Freeze dried (lyophilized) IGF-1 (in powder state) should be stored in the freezer (-18 degrees celsius).
Each Long r3 IGF-1 kit contains:

* 1000mcg of lyophilized Long R3 IGF-1
* 2 mls of 0.6% Acetic Acid (AA)
* 30ml Sodium Chloride (NaCL) as buffer

Dilute the IGF-1 with 2mls of Acetic Acid. Assuming (*DO NOT ASSUME*) AA will yield the correct pH balance of your research peptide.
Note: This creates a concentration of 500mcg/ml. So each 1/10 of a ML is 50mcg’s.

Draw the desired amount of IGF in to a syringe. Desired amount should be the approx dose you want to take.
Example- 2mls AA used to reconstitute IGF-1 1mg vial means 5 units on a U100 insulin syringe would equal 25mcg IGF-1
Pre-load your syringes at 5iu (25mcg IGF-1). Divide your IGF-1 into 20 syringes to move to the freezer for storage.

Thaw prior to administration. Draw from your NaCL after thawed to fill the remainder of your syringe with the buffer (up to 1ml typically).

Administer your test subject intramuscularly (IM) post workout. IGF-1 does not need to be bilaterally or in the muscle trained.

Unknown whether injecting IGF-1 to increase muscle growth
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Old 02-19-11, 07:44 AM
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Scott your posting guides none of which say anything about how or why igf is only active in bac water for 48 hours like is so commonly repeated.

I have read every single one of the articles you posted. Hell, 2 of the articles you post say igf can be reconstituted in aa or sodium chloride! Lol.

Once again, it is about the claim by some people that it will not last in bac water. This claim is not backed up by any proof.

I am not debating whether or not aa will work, I think everyone agrees that it does. What I am debating and aiming to find out is if bac water doesnt!

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Old 02-19-11, 07:45 AM
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I agree its great he is willing to try it but what difference does it make if you can use Bac or not? its not like the AA is hard to get or it hurts you so why risk loosing the IGF?
What's so hard to understand? It's about people saying a certain way won't work when I see no science and no reason why it wouldn't work.
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Old 02-19-11, 07:56 AM
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Let me again point this out from the other thread. Written by a real scientist, not willy from the local peptide store. lol

"So for IGF-1 LR3 this "meet in the middle" occurs with acetate (a base) and acetic acid (a weak acid). Now IF there is no acetate present because the maker did not put it in (or you failed to ) reconstituting w/ acetic acid will make the environment too acidic and IGF-1 LR3 will experience depronation and degrade rapidly. So in a situation where there is an adequate base present such as acetate, you want to use acetic acid.

Now IF no base is added, you do not want to add an acid. Reconstituting with sterile water will give a pH of 4-7. Bacteriostatic water has a pH around 5. This is not a bad environment for IGF-1 LR3"

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Old 02-19-11, 08:35 AM
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Also, just to clear the air, I feel like you guys (scott, and rocket) are taking it personally that I am doing this. Its not that I don't value what you guys say, I respect the both of you. I also agree with both of you that aa is the safe bet. i just need to find out if in fact it is true that the igf will only last 48 in BAC water or if that has just become the thing to repeat even though there is no proof.
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Old 02-19-11, 09:25 AM
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not taking it personally B ,, 99.99 percent of igf13 comes from overseas therefore i will always reconstitute with aa ....

every company i have come across and read articles on all state use aa or hcl which is even better but very hard to find ..
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Old 02-19-11, 10:19 AM
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yea, and i know aa is fine to use. dont doubt it for a second.

i just have a suspicion that BAC is also fine to use because i can find no proof that it isnt.

we will see soon. if after a few days i dont notice anything from the igf in BAC water and i do notice something from the igf in aa, we will know.
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Old 02-19-11, 01:35 PM
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Also, just to clear the air, I feel like you guys (scott, and rocket) are taking it personally that I am doing this. Its not that I don't value what you guys say, I respect the both of you. I also agree with both of you that aa is the safe bet. i just need to find out if in fact it is true that the igf will only last 48 in BAC water or if that has just become the thing to repeat even though there is no proof.
Im not taking it personal either. I think its fine to experment I used to do it all the time. but to me this one is just to know if it will work or not. I wanna see experments that will make it work better or something thats it. Im not gonna knock ya for doing it you wanna know and thats all that really matters so go for it.

What if you feel nothing from both bac and AA?
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Old 02-19-11, 02:32 PM
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If I feel nothing from both ways I will say igf is shit. LOl
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Old 02-19-11, 02:44 PM
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BUT, if they both turn out to work the same, that will mean no more burning piss acid that has to be diluted with bac water etc..
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Old 02-19-11, 03:57 PM
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BUT, if they both turn out to work the same, that will mean no more burning piss acid that has to be diluted with bac water etc..
def keep me posted brother
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Old 02-19-11, 10:34 PM
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BUT, if they both turn out to work the same, that will mean no more burning piss acid that has to be diluted with bac water etc..
this is true but I like it sometimes,lol
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Old 02-20-11, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
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A few things first I never went hypo of even came close to that feeling and this was stuff that worked like a champ. proof was in the mirror.
second why expermint with the IGF that way? it makes more sence to experment on yourself with doses or timming but not the way its mixed.
everyone agrees that its fine in AA
some say bac water is fine
some say bac water 24-48 hours
makes sence to go with AA if you ask me. But either way you decide I will be looking at the thread to see what happens.
I went hypo every time if I didnt eat like clock work.
I mix my IGFLR3 in AA and then use some extra BAC
WATER in the pin to take some of the sting/bite from
the AA solution.
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Old 02-22-11, 01:40 PM
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So at 40mcgs a day, the bottle should last 25 days. IMO that's too much money for results that can be attained with AS for a lot less.
decided to reconstitute with 3 cc's of BAC water.

so that will make each 10 mark on the slin pin 33mcg. so going to run 33mcg per day instead of 40. each bottle will last a month.
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Old 02-22-11, 01:49 PM
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think 40-60mcgs is ideal, that's just me...I did well with that range.
and with my superior genetics, 33 for me will be like 60 for you.
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Old 02-22-11, 01:55 PM
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too bad your brain will still be
huh?
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Old 02-22-11, 03:39 PM
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LOL I guess I am expermenting with you to now bro.
yesterday I took the last of my first vial and when I mixed the second vial I used Bac water cuz it was sitting right there from my shot,lol

FUCK I hope you are right and its ok
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Old 02-22-11, 03:40 PM
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I'm sure BAC is fine bro...I never had an issue with it...I think people these days get to scientific with no science behind it...I honestly think 40-60mcgs is ideal, that's just me...I did well with that range.
when the company that makes it says to reconstitute with aa .. i will use aa
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Old 02-22-11, 05:07 PM
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when the company that makes it says to reconstitute with aa .. i will use aa
I agree I fucked up.
I just took my first shot with the Bac water mixed in I miss the lil sting from the AA,lol.
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Old 02-22-11, 05:09 PM
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I've heard sides include; bigger nose, etc...You and I know YOU don't need a bigger nose
LOL my nose is money son, well ok just a slight tilt to it i broke it 2 times in 2 months. I need to learn to move my head better
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Old 02-23-11, 08:58 AM
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when the company that makes it says to reconstitute with aa .. i will use aa
and other companys that makes it say mix with NACL solution or BAC water.

so again, your point isnt really valid.
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Old 03-01-11, 12:31 PM
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DAY 1

Stuff came the other day but wanted to wait until the 1st to start.

Trained arms today, came home took my shot, waited 15 min to have my shake just to see if any hypo feeling would come like ghrp, didnt feel the hypo and had my shake.

Took the shot only 25 mins ago so I will report back if I notice or feel anything.

My dosage to start out with is 33mcg per day. Just easy that way because its 3cc's of water in the vial, each 10 mark on the slin pin = 33mcg, and it will last exactly 30 days. If i need to, i will up the dose in a few weeks.

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Old 03-01-11, 12:58 PM
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33 to start, will bump up as needed.
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Old 03-01-11, 01:17 PM
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33 to start will bump up if needed.
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Old 03-01-11, 01:32 PM
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stop filling the log with horse shit.

if you are right then you are right and i will bump it up. first i have to see how i respond to it. you cant tell me how to use it based on how you respond to something.
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Old 03-01-11, 01:42 PM
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And if this will be your log...change the title you dumb ass...
its clearly says log.
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Old 03-01-11, 02:26 PM
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stop filling the log with horse shit.


Thats like telling Obahma to stop being black lol!
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Old 03-01-11, 02:45 PM
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Nice change Well hope it works at that dose.
it has says log since the day i made the fucken thread. thats the point of the thread, my log to compare igf bac water and aa.
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Old 03-01-11, 02:57 PM
  #44
 
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Oh for goodness sake, its business as usual then with you two squabbling
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Old 03-01-11, 03:36 PM
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and telling you to act inteligent
your far too cocky for your height there one cell
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Old 03-01-11, 03:42 PM
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Adj. 1. cocky - overly self-confident or self-assertive


That's me /\ Height/Weight has nothing to do with it....Call me short all you want...But one thing is certain, I'd beat the piss out of you anyday We Ricans don't play
you also need to look up 'delusional' if you think you could hang with a full grown like me my little cutlet
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Old 03-01-11, 03:44 PM
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you also need to look up 'delusional' if you think you could hang with a full grown like me my little cutlet
haha, a full grown!
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Old 03-01-11, 03:55 PM
  #48
 
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And your ignorance shows again...SIZE don't mean shit homie....HEART does playa...keep
rado, you do know I'm kidding right? seriousely bro this whole height thing has you all paranoid and angry

your new name is 'One Cell Cutlet', one cell because you only have one rep cell and one brain cell and Cutlet because your a miniture Cutler wanabe.

You are an entertainer though, now you gotta come up with something of a name for me
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Old 03-01-11, 03:55 PM
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And your ignorance shows again...SIZE don't mean shit homie....HEART does playa...keep
So your saying Lesnar would lose against Faber then?
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Old 03-01-11, 04:13 PM
  #50
 
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So your saying Lesnar would lose against Faber then?
LOL, lesnar would kill him. on that note that lil bastard Faber would probably beat the shit outta me.
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